I read the transcript. Szamuely is correct that this operation has been, so far, a public relations coup for Ukraine. That doesn't contradict Doctorow's argument that the Ukrainians are looking to seize territory, perhaps as a bargaining chip. I didn't see where Szamuely argued that PR was THE objective of this operation. Seizing ground and generating PR are not mutually exclusive objectives in my understanding of the world.
Is the Ukrainian military operation a success? So far they've taken ground. Is the cost exorbitant? Likely this is so. Will this operation be a success? Not likely. Have they exploited the PR for this successfully? Yes, and the Western UkroNazi Fan Boys are all a twitter with excitement about this. The PR will work only as long as the Ukrainians enjoy success.
Does this operation make sense? If it succeeds in its goals (whatever they are) it will. Otherwise it won't. The German offensive "Wacht am Rhein", aka Battle of the Bulge, failed and is generally considered a blunder by the Germans. But if they had captured Antwerp? It would be studied as a daring and brilliant success. C'est la guerre et c'est la vie.
I have done a lot of work in PR. No PR person of any experience would call an event that "coup"-- unless they had long term effects on public perception – changing that perception of things-- which this event will not. Public perceptions in the West are predetermined – and have been for a long time. But the "narrative" is increasingly undermined by the reality that Western Ukraine has lost the war – and will probably cease to exist. So this incursion is an attempt to shore up the existing media narrative. The problem is that the incursion has not been successful. Ukrainians strategy is always flawed by trying to take territory that doesn't belong to them and expending lives and resources in that effort. There offensives end up being duck shoots, Ukrainians have not "taken ground"-- they have attempted to take ground and in the so doing expose themselves and are being destroyed. It's exactly the same thing that they have done before in other areas. They keep on making them the same mistakes. In the Russians profit from those mistakes. It will be much easier to govern Ukraine with most of the population dead or fled. However, the Western PR (propaganda) machine will continue turning out stories of marvelous Ukrainian successes.
Most people in the world, like me and Szamuely, aren't PR professionals. Our sense of what is PR is probably not the same as that of its practitioners. I haven't seen signs that Ukraine has released a line of souvenir coffee cups, T-shirts, and paper-weights for this operation, so in that sense the PR here is more incidental than pre-planned.
As I have mentioned before in a comment to an earlier article, “contract soldier” in Russian means a full-time regular soldier in the “regular army”, to use British English terminology. This bandying about of the term “contract soldier”, either wilfully or through intent, by the Western media and commenters when referring to Russian soldiers who have not been conscripted but who have signed up for a regular job in the armed forces causes misunderstanding amongst many in the West In the UK, they have long had this slogan on army recruitment posters: “Join the Professionals!” — meaning join the regular army as a regular soldier. Interestingly, Russian army recruitment posters now use the same slogan, beneath which are details of the terms of contract for such soldiers, namely years of service chosen and compensation for signing on for different years of service.
Thank you for this. Of course, the English media is not referring to the Russian concept of contract soldier -- but to the western concept of contract soldier. Different from Dad's Army. That said the Russian military is evolving fast at all levels. The war is enforcing change. I think anyway. I'm sure you know better than I!
George Szamuely is the son of Tibor Szamuely, author of a study of Soviet history, ”The Russian Tradition”, publishe posthumously and edited by Robert Conquest (FFS!!!) in 1974.
I read the transcript. Szamuely is correct that this operation has been, so far, a public relations coup for Ukraine. That doesn't contradict Doctorow's argument that the Ukrainians are looking to seize territory, perhaps as a bargaining chip. I didn't see where Szamuely argued that PR was THE objective of this operation. Seizing ground and generating PR are not mutually exclusive objectives in my understanding of the world.
Is the Ukrainian military operation a success? So far they've taken ground. Is the cost exorbitant? Likely this is so. Will this operation be a success? Not likely. Have they exploited the PR for this successfully? Yes, and the Western UkroNazi Fan Boys are all a twitter with excitement about this. The PR will work only as long as the Ukrainians enjoy success.
Does this operation make sense? If it succeeds in its goals (whatever they are) it will. Otherwise it won't. The German offensive "Wacht am Rhein", aka Battle of the Bulge, failed and is generally considered a blunder by the Germans. But if they had captured Antwerp? It would be studied as a daring and brilliant success. C'est la guerre et c'est la vie.
In short - chill.
I have done a lot of work in PR. No PR person of any experience would call an event that "coup"-- unless they had long term effects on public perception – changing that perception of things-- which this event will not. Public perceptions in the West are predetermined – and have been for a long time. But the "narrative" is increasingly undermined by the reality that Western Ukraine has lost the war – and will probably cease to exist. So this incursion is an attempt to shore up the existing media narrative. The problem is that the incursion has not been successful. Ukrainians strategy is always flawed by trying to take territory that doesn't belong to them and expending lives and resources in that effort. There offensives end up being duck shoots, Ukrainians have not "taken ground"-- they have attempted to take ground and in the so doing expose themselves and are being destroyed. It's exactly the same thing that they have done before in other areas. They keep on making them the same mistakes. In the Russians profit from those mistakes. It will be much easier to govern Ukraine with most of the population dead or fled. However, the Western PR (propaganda) machine will continue turning out stories of marvelous Ukrainian successes.
Most people in the world, like me and Szamuely, aren't PR professionals. Our sense of what is PR is probably not the same as that of its practitioners. I haven't seen signs that Ukraine has released a line of souvenir coffee cups, T-shirts, and paper-weights for this operation, so in that sense the PR here is more incidental than pre-planned.
As I have mentioned before in a comment to an earlier article, “contract soldier” in Russian means a full-time regular soldier in the “regular army”, to use British English terminology. This bandying about of the term “contract soldier”, either wilfully or through intent, by the Western media and commenters when referring to Russian soldiers who have not been conscripted but who have signed up for a regular job in the armed forces causes misunderstanding amongst many in the West In the UK, they have long had this slogan on army recruitment posters: “Join the Professionals!” — meaning join the regular army as a regular soldier. Interestingly, Russian army recruitment posters now use the same slogan, beneath which are details of the terms of contract for such soldiers, namely years of service chosen and compensation for signing on for different years of service.
Thank you for this. Of course, the English media is not referring to the Russian concept of contract soldier -- but to the western concept of contract soldier. Different from Dad's Army. That said the Russian military is evolving fast at all levels. The war is enforcing change. I think anyway. I'm sure you know better than I!
Typo above!
I should have written above “either wilfully or through ignorance“.
Szamuely is an enemy. That's all there is to it. He writes for the Observer/Guardian. What more is there to say. He is a moron.
I wasn't familiar with him as a writer. However, anyone who works for the Guardian is suspect.
Like father like son!
George Szamuely is the son of Tibor Szamuely, author of a study of Soviet history, ”The Russian Tradition”, publishe posthumously and edited by Robert Conquest (FFS!!!) in 1974.
Conquest was a close friend of Szamuely Sr.
Check out Conquest!
Great one...
Frank Zappa Illustrated what Jim Morrison said in 1988 ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUwhMdIW8AAjsFb?format=jpg
And Robert Crumb in 1977...
https://f4.bcbits.com/img/0010726452_10.jpg
Sander
PS. I got a "Déjà Vu" experience because of the Kursk-Incursion...
It is like this:
THE LAST CHARGE OF THE LIGHT BRIGADE :
Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
"Charge," was the captain's cry;
Their's not to reason why,
Their's not to make reply,
Their's but to do and die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well;
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell,
Rode the six hundred.
Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd all at once in air,
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Fiercely the line they broke;
Strong was the sabre-stroke;
Making an army reel
Shaken and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not,
Not the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
They that had struck so well
Rode thro' the jaws of Death,
Half a league back again,
Up from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
Honour the brave and bold!
Long shall the tale be told,
Yea, when our babes are old—
How they rode onward.
THE END.
Charge of the Light Brigade at the Battle of Balaclava during the Crimean War, 25 October 1854,
part of the Siege of Sevastopol (1854–55).
->https://www.historic-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/charge-light-brigade-2800x1440.jpg
A great comment. And exactly right.
R. Crumb...once again proving that a picture is worth a 1000 words.